What a blessing this particular lesson has been to me today, just enjoying basking in the beauty of it all!
If you are planning on continuing on into Revelation Part 3 in September, please use this Lesson's Comment Cafe to register your intent and I will notify you when the workbooks are in. Looking forward to seeing you girls on Thursday morning!
Tried to use the gathering place but not sure if it worked. I am really looking forward to the next session starting in the fall. I can hardly weait for all of this to fall into place!
Hi Cathie! Thank you again for your teaching and leadership in our Bible Study. I am so thankful for it and you. You have been so diligent in your study of the word for so many years. Thank you. Now so many of us our benefiting from your commitment and discipline. Appreciate you! YES – i am definitely planning to continue with the course next Fall. So much more to learn. I am so thankful that there are two more sessions. Hopefully by then I will have a greater understanding of it all. Have a wonderful summer! Your thankful student. Marlene
I am still not sure where in Revelation that it says the nations will live outside the gates of the new Jerusalem. This has been bothering me as it seems there are so many things that I miss and I am trying to be patient but it is so hard.
Debbie, I'm sure Cathie will answer you further, but look at Rev 21:23-27. I found the Charles Spurgeon quote I was talking about in class. "I see in one place, God presiding over all in providence; and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions to his own will, in a great measure. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act, that there was no presidence of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to Atheism; and if, on the other hand, I declare that God so overrules all things, as that man is not free enough to be responsible, I am driven at once into Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring." The rest of the sermon (which I haven't read fully) can be found here, if anyone's interested.
Debbie Smith and I were having a bit of an email chat about the nations and I thought I'd share here for anyone else to weigh in.
Debbie said: When it says the nations will walk by its light I don't see how that means they don't live in the New Jerusalem. To me if they can walk by its light could also mean that they are a part of the new city. What is your take on this?
I said: To me, saying that the kings of the earth will bring the glory and honor of the nations into Jerusalem indicates that they are outside of it. I mean, you can't bring something into a place if it's already there. Also saying that the gates will never be closed indicates that there will be people coming and going through them, right?
Now this is a new concept to me, too; I had never seen it before last week, although I have wondered about the leaves of the tree of life being for the healing of the nations. So who are these nations exactly, and why aren't they living in the city too, and why do they need healing? I'm not certain, and I'm looking forward to studying it more.
What we do know: - they will have access to the city (Rev. 21:25) - no one who is unclean or practices abomination and lying shall ever come into the city (Rev 21:27) - their names are in the Lamb's book of life (Rev. 21:27) - the bride of Christ, the overcomers, the bondservants will be in the New Jerusalem and will reign forever and ever (Rev 22:5) (so there must be someone to reign over?) - the holy city comes out of heaven to the new earth, so there's more to this new earth than just the city. Does it follow logically that there would be people living elsewhere on the earth too?
Just my thoughts. Like I said, I'm just learning this too, so if you disagree with me or see things differently, that's ok! I'm going to post this on the blog too, for anyone else to give their input. Love Cat
HI Debbie! Hi Cat! I'm enjoying listening to your ongoing conversation regarding the nations!
Deb, I believe the best thing that you can do is what I remind myself to do as well, and that is to just rest in what you know for sure and then let God continue to unfold, in His time, those things that as of now, seem obscure to you. God is not holding out on you...
In my own study, I have come at this from another vantage point. By looking at the 'kings of the earth', it would appear that their PRIMARY place of occupation and responsibility lies upon various places upon 'the earth' and not within the city itself. They bring the glory that they have been given outside the city and they bring that glory inside the city.
So far in my study, I see two groups of what we would consider 'the faithful'... the first being the 'glorified saints' who reside or live within the city itself... and those who reside or live outside the city on the earth who I believe are those that have been left living at the end of the 1,000 year reign.
Remember that in Rev 21:2 the holy city, the New Jerusalem, comes out of heaven FROM GOD made ready as A BRIDE adorned for her HUSBAND.
The glorified church is the BRIDE of CHRIST and she IS the NEW JERUSALEM. Eph 5:27 Not everyone written in the Lamb's book of life at the end of Rev 20 are the 'glorified saints' of the church. Yet, they still have access in and out of the open gates of the city.
I hope this helps and not hinders you!
I'll pop in as much as I can, my mother was taken into the hospital and so my energies and attention have been with her. So thankful for the presence and love of our Lord through it all, and of course for my sisters who I know pray for me as the Spirit leads them! :)
Thanks for your thoughts Cathy. Both you and Cat have given me a lot to think about and I think the best thing for me to do now is to continue in my study and wait upon the LORD. I will try not to get too anxious.
I am sorry to hear about your mom and will pray for the two of you. I pray that God will give you the extra strength and patience that you need right now.
Hi Debbie, you realize, don't you, that you totally set me up when you said that you would try to not get too anxious... so here you are...
"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Phil 4:6
I was just reading over the postings and had to laugh, Cathie...Phil 4:6 is yellow-sticky'd to my bathroom mirror as a daily reminder to me!! I am learning (ever so slowly) to wait on the Lord and to not need to know NOW what His word is teaching us.
I'm so grateful for you all the women I have the honour of studying with and learning from! Love, Jeanne
Hi there Sister :) a quick question....in 1 Cor 15:52 I know the trumpet mention is not the 7th trumpet or we would be here during the Trib. I have checked Matt 24:31 But this is the chapter that some Pastors use to preach we will be her during the Trib. Since the Bible does not contradict the Bible nor is God a God of confusion. This trumpet obviously has another meaning. Can you help me please ???? Your work is never done. How is your Mom? any progress.I am looking forward to joining you in your garden before our summer ends.So until later then....thanks Cathie...XXXXXXXXX
hahahahaha! Yes, we will be studying this further in Part 3 and YES there is a "done" to my work when I am only a few days into my summer vacation!! Purposely, stayed away from the techy devices as much as possible these last few weeks!
What a blessing this particular lesson has been to me today, just enjoying basking in the beauty of it all!
ReplyDeleteIf you are planning on continuing on into Revelation Part 3 in September, please use this Lesson's Comment Cafe to register your intent and I will notify you when the workbooks are in. Looking forward to seeing you girls on Thursday morning!
With love,
Cathie
I'm all in for Part 3...as long as we're still here!! See you Thursday! Hugs, Wendy
ReplyDeleteHi Cathie,
ReplyDeleteNo doubt at all. I am continuing.
With love,
Jan
count me in - looking forward to it.
ReplyDeleteSally
me too!
ReplyDeleteHi Cathie,
ReplyDeleteTried to use the gathering place but not sure if it worked. I am really looking forward to the next session starting in the fall. I can hardly weait for all of this to fall into place!
See you Thursday.
With love
Debbie
Absolutely!! I want to see how this play ends!!
ReplyDeleteJeanne
Yes Cathie
ReplyDeleteI'm confirming my sign up for Revelation Part 3.
Love
Linda
Hi Cathie! Thank you again for your teaching and leadership in our Bible Study. I am so thankful for it and you. You have been so diligent in your study of the word for so many years. Thank you. Now so
ReplyDeletemany of us our benefiting from your commitment and discipline. Appreciate you! YES – i am definitely planning to continue with the course next Fall. So much more to learn. I am so thankful that there are two more sessions. Hopefully by then I will have a greater understanding of it all. Have a wonderful summer! Your thankful student. Marlene
Hi Cathie,
ReplyDeleteI am still not sure where in Revelation that it says the nations will live outside the gates of the new Jerusalem. This has been bothering me as it seems there are so many things that I miss and I am trying to be patient but it is so hard.
Debbie
Debbie, I'm sure Cathie will answer you further, but look at Rev 21:23-27.
ReplyDeleteI found the Charles Spurgeon quote I was talking about in class.
"I see in one place, God presiding over all in providence; and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions to his own will, in a great measure. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act, that there was no presidence of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to Atheism; and if, on the other hand, I declare that God so overrules all things, as that man is not free enough to be responsible, I am driven at once into Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring."
The rest of the sermon (which I haven't read fully) can be found here, if anyone's interested.
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0207.htm
ReplyDeleteI would like to take part in revelation part three please.
ReplyDeleteDebbie Smith and I were having a bit of an email chat about the nations and I thought I'd share here for anyone else to weigh in.
ReplyDeleteDebbie said: When it says the nations will walk by its light I don't see how that means they don't live in the New Jerusalem. To me if they can walk by its light could also mean that they are a part of the new city. What is your take on this?
I said:
To me, saying that the kings of the earth will bring the glory and honor of the nations into Jerusalem indicates that they are outside of it. I mean, you can't bring something into a place if it's already there. Also saying that the gates will never be closed indicates that there will be people coming and going through them, right?
Now this is a new concept to me, too; I had never seen it before last week, although I have wondered about the leaves of the tree of life being for the healing of the nations. So who are these nations exactly, and why aren't they living in the city too, and why do they need healing? I'm not certain, and I'm looking forward to studying it more.
What we do know:
- they will have access to the city (Rev. 21:25)
- no one who is unclean or practices abomination and lying shall ever come into the city (Rev 21:27)
- their names are in the Lamb's book of life (Rev. 21:27)
- the bride of Christ, the overcomers, the bondservants will be in the New Jerusalem and will reign forever and ever (Rev 22:5) (so there must be someone to reign over?)
- the holy city comes out of heaven to the new earth, so there's more to this new earth than just the city. Does it follow logically that there would be people living elsewhere on the earth too?
Just my thoughts. Like I said, I'm just learning this too, so if you disagree with me or see things differently, that's ok! I'm going to post this on the blog too, for anyone else to give their input.
Love Cat
HI Debbie! Hi Cat! I'm enjoying listening to your ongoing conversation regarding the nations!
ReplyDeleteDeb, I believe the best thing that you can do is what I remind myself to do as well, and that is to just rest in what you know for sure and then let God continue to unfold, in His time, those things that as of now, seem obscure to you. God is not holding out on you...
In my own study, I have come at this from another vantage point. By looking at the 'kings of the earth', it would appear that their PRIMARY place of occupation and responsibility lies upon various places upon 'the earth' and not within the city itself. They bring the glory that they have been given outside the city and they bring that glory inside the city.
So far in my study, I see two groups of what we would consider 'the faithful'... the first being the 'glorified saints' who reside or live within the city itself... and those who reside or live outside the city on the earth who I believe are those that have been left living at the end of the 1,000 year reign.
Remember that in Rev 21:2 the holy city, the New Jerusalem, comes out of heaven FROM GOD made ready as A BRIDE adorned for her HUSBAND.
The glorified church is the BRIDE of CHRIST and she IS the NEW JERUSALEM. Eph 5:27 Not everyone written in the Lamb's book of life at the end of Rev 20 are the 'glorified saints' of the church. Yet, they still have access in and out of the open gates of the city.
I hope this helps and not hinders you!
I'll pop in as much as I can, my mother was taken into the hospital and so my energies and attention have been with her. So thankful for the presence and love of our Lord through it all, and of course for my sisters who I know pray for me as the Spirit leads them! :)
love you!
Cathie
Thanks for your thoughts Cathy. Both you and Cat have given me a lot to think about and I think the best thing for me to do now is to continue in my study and wait upon the LORD. I will try not to get too anxious.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry to hear about your mom and will pray for the two of you. I pray that God will give you the extra strength and patience that you need right now.
With love
Debbie
Hi Debbie, you realize, don't you, that you totally set me up when you said that you would try to not get too anxious... so here you are...
ReplyDelete"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Phil 4:6
love you Deb! :)
Cathie
I was just reading over the postings and had to laugh, Cathie...Phil 4:6 is yellow-sticky'd to my bathroom mirror as a daily reminder to me!! I am learning (ever so slowly) to wait on the Lord and to not need to know NOW what His word is teaching us.
ReplyDeleteI'm so grateful for you all the women I have the honour of studying with and learning from!
Love, Jeanne
Hey Jeanne! I couldn't help but smile and wonder how many yellow sticky notes have been used to His glory and our good over the years!
ReplyDeletelove you too sweetheart!
Cathie
Hi there Sister :)
ReplyDeletea quick question....in 1 Cor 15:52 I know the trumpet mention is not the 7th trumpet or we would be here during the Trib. I have checked Matt 24:31 But this is the chapter that some Pastors use to preach we will be her during the Trib. Since the Bible does not contradict the Bible nor is God a God of confusion. This trumpet obviously has another meaning. Can you help me please ????
Your work is never done.
How is your Mom? any progress.I am looking forward to joining you in your garden before our summer ends.So until later then....thanks Cathie...XXXXXXXXX
I am assuming we will be studying this further in part 3. so guess I will wait for my answer :) :) . until then
ReplyDeletehahahahaha! Yes, we will be studying this further in Part 3 and YES there is a "done" to my work when I am only a few days into my summer vacation!! Purposely, stayed away from the techy devices as much as possible these last few weeks!
ReplyDeleteYou are hysterical!!!